Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.

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  • Опубликована: 10 окт 2011, 15:06
  • Автор: expert
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
What can I say? It is not a Versailles.
But, though, no cracks. It somehow brightens dark sides.
The good news is that it is in the wilderness, in the eyes of people, the owner has a high level assessment because you compare to anything. For those regions the log house is a curiosity, especially from such a large timber. So, the customer is satisfied.
I'm young, and still try to please yourself and the people also with the architecture.
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
Yeah, I do not write nonsense, it's you casually read and write too emotionally. I worked in a popular company (and I had a hand in it at the time), I wrote about it earlier. You can find it on the front pages of all search systems. search for words that are in the title of this topic.
I was there and developed the technology of the Canadian harvesting - with an absolute zero – no one from the Canadians learned me. I started to talk to them much later, when it began to be prepared and wanted to understand and to learn more.
I also got rid of the rose-colored glasses of the enthusiasm from the beginning of a new business and found myself thinking one day. What is the state of this industry nowadays if the ideas and a practice of a student are being introduced and presented as the latest achievements of a "Science"?. And this is in the company that dazzled the eyes in search systems... And what about those that on the third, 5, 135 page in Google...?

Incidentally, I want to try to turn the discussion in a constructive direction. So, I say that I know very well the reasons of a constant confrontation in the Internet, the supporters of various systems of cutting. Those who are now mainly represented on the log house market. There are carpenters, that abandoned in the end the bold management, which was located between them and the customers that coud leave a technology, a cutting, a research, and carpenters themselves..
They are only interested in money - no investments in a research and a development, a safety and a work relief, sandy and professional tools. Only the outer facade of this "business".
Therefore, the carpenters, who were said - "to build as in the photo", they do as they can using the experience that they have already had. It is not their fault that under the influence of "come on (quick)!, go ahead!", there is only a simulation. This is the result of years of the abnormal development of an entire industry.


The good news is that thanks for the Internet, mobile phones – there is a direct process of a "fraternization" with foreign colleagues and everybody enrichs with the new knowledge and the experience.


I made, at one time, a brilliant career of carpenters at a factory, but seeing whole this "business" from the inside, I chose to remain in the hoi polloi, which still want to understand something...

If we discard the famous phrase about the place of the attachment of the hands to the body, then the flaws are due to purely technical issues – a wrong or an awkward instrument, a violation of the technology, a lack of lifting equipment, a lack of a clear algorithm works....
Having the correct algorithm, you can do right.

With the growth of a professionalism decreases the time spent on each operation. Once, in Soviet times are widely used standards for evaluating the cost of a labor. A carpenter of 6-th bit must hewn the log for 15 minutes, of 2 nd – for 1 hour (figures are comparable and may differ from actual). Immediately, everything is clear. Why it costs so much...
The current pricing to customers is difficult to understand and is likely related to the location of dots on a false ceiling in the office...

I'm not trying to offend you, I got a lot of invaluable experience from my teacher Alexander Kurnakov (17 years in the cutting), especially all sorts of useful tricks for operations, but also a separately log perfectly licked, from which you can make supper, may be placed incorrectly in some common system.

As for the orders, I am not looking for them here, though I dont position myself as a manufacturer of log cabins, but simply I work with like-minded people, I have no team and I do not plan to build it up, a schedule that I had to fill, is filled almost till December this year.
:lol:
I am here with one purpose, I have read this topic for a long time and I am following the thread of the discussion, but in my opinion, it didn’t go there. It is quite wrong to contrast the different systems of building log houses, they are all good and give the same result - a solid, clean and, where it is possible, a nice house for a human, who can not afford to build from logs for financial reasons. A carpenter’s work, for all possible improvements, is not easy itself and can not be sold for a pittance.

If there is no confrontation between the advocates of different systems, and the honest and professional attitude to the customer, the survey, which was opened here, should show the normal variation of aesthetic preferences of customers - some people like round timbers, someone like a half timber, someone like boards, someone like straight walls and someone love indirect angles ... etc.
I wonder when the "Canadians" will determine which of them is the first?
The question on the topic is not about "what is the best", but "what to choose." See the title.
P.S. I do not want to continue this discussion here.
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constructor
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
Yeahh, everyone can see that the experience is not enough, and you cut the logs of the same diameter, also calibrated. The trace should be set up under each log, especially if the curves are different, because there isn‘t a perfectly smooth wood in nature! Especially, since it is not possible to configure the line immediately below the whole row, I take, for example, 4 walls. So sorry, but you need working on the technique!
Lie! Some people have even been involved in a felling more than 5 years, can not properly mark (or trace) a log cabin! And the (very) first time, no one reading it will not be able to do it.
Again, the gap in the groove. Why should do it bigger at the beginning, than at the end, if it shrinks more or what? So, you have to do it more at the top, as the higher log, the drier log, respectively. And that pressure is not great, if there is a ruberoid roof, and if there is a tiled roof, the load is too serious. In addition, if there is a two-story log cabin that the first crowns will have the gap of 5 cm.? Or did you only try to hack a bath?
I'm not exaggerating, then we must simply say how many logs there are in the front row, as in the second row, and so, from the very first we can do it correctly!!
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
No, excuse me, as they say, in a joke ...
I haven’t cut from a milled timber, but my fingers itch to do it, I want to help carpenters to solve the problems ...
The trace can be configured for each log, but you can (Oh, it’s terrible!) lay down the entire frame into a well during the first laying-out, choose the largest clearance in the wooden house between the logs, to draw all the grooves in the wooden house by this gap, and cups (adjusting every third crown). To parse it all and to saw it on the ground by the marking. People have already made it since 2000 (we also want, and even tried it, but the patent law does not allow).
And the customer will not notice any difference.
The whole question of what goals are set, if you save a cubic (it is not free), you have to measure every log very carefully. If there is a velocity at the first place, and the wood is inexpensive - it can be as described. The consumer properties of a log house will be the same in both cases.

The main task of cutting is to set exactly a common axis parallel of beams in a whole log house. Because the natural log is a cone (with a greater or less number of local embossments), then the grooves will seek (and seek) to the parallel lines, thus, the material waste due to grooving and cups will be minimal. It is important to choose the desired beam with a diameter for the right place, as to trace knots.

It is not a lie. I found calculated height of the corners from the logs with "skirts" with an accuracy of 0.8 cm from the very first. I used the right algorithm and calculations. Not everyone can from the first cut as close to the line of marking – it’s scary to intercept the line, and there I quite agree. We had to bring to the line by hands, then the speed slows down (now I stoped worrying and just hacking through, thanks to a predictable instrument). A drawing with the place of the hand attachment and skills of an ax, a saw, a chisel ... connected only with the "power of engineering". I know teams where only one scriber is worn on the log with a trace, and the crowd saws and make a very good job.
I don’t want to discuss here those things that I have not personally researched and have not tried, so, I have the experience.

I do not understand why you upper timbers are drier? Do you chop log houses from logs with a varying humidity? All construction standards (not just Canadian or Norwegian) from logs contain a clause - the whole mass of material for the log home shouldn’t differ by the moisture than a few percent. This is especially important in bracing wire of logs if you have to do it.
And, so, it is as clear as daylight, the weight is different. If you do not make a big gap in the lower crown, the pressure will be mostly on the groove, and the area of its support (as opposed to the Russian one) is small, just the edges. And then you can’t allow these loads, otherwise when everything is dried, there will be gaps. So, the log is based only on the cup in practice. When everything dries up and the load is distributed, the wood on the cheeks rises due to the elasticity and closes the gap in the cups. Wood not only resizes as it is drying, it also has a modulus of elasticity.
If you overdo with a gap, it will damage the wood on the cheeks from a high pressure and the cracks will be pockets of destruction.

So, you can not say some concrete numbers for people, they doesn’t exist!
The wood is different, a humidity, an equilibrium moisture content of a log house in the region, where will be a house ....and so on.

There is a principle of a calculation and this is enough. In order to achieve a decent result, you need a school course of a physics, a mathematics, and a unpretentious moisture gauge, books on woodworking from the library (fortunately, we have them widely available), a calculator, a notebook. And a budget of less than 1,000 rubles. :geek:
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baltazar
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
I do not know how, but personally I would prefer to deal with a man who has never cut the log house, but he knows how to do it correctly than those who have 5 years experience but don’t understand what to do.
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
You still say that you can draw by scribing tool that you are spinning. I will not take it for free! All day long to carry such bulky thing, it doesn't fit. If ypu have a good carpenter, who can trace, than he can easily do it with any tool (a fork, a chisel, a pitchfork), and most importantly it does not need to fasten the tool level, etc. it’s a nonsense!!, because he easily determines the level, and most importantly how to put the line to make it all right!. Show me an example, the frame that you traced at a time! Although you need to be accurate only in the corners and along the slot there are anyway the holes, so, you can’t determine how exactly they were made. When a frame is made by two and then the difference can be seen, and here we have the entire log house. Is it just a theory?

Are you saying that you could do it? Please, post at least one photo of the log house, not a ready home!. In addition many people have one draftsman, and the rest are engaged in another job, and except for sawing there is a lot of work.

And you are saying that you can do someting, but just to think you can not! The log cabin is not sawn by different logs. In addition, even when cutting they will vary in a moisture content, as the first rows are cut from a raw wood. Or maybe you are driven the los in the course of logging? Initially, we prepare timbers, and then we are going to cut a frame. And, respectively, back rows will be drier, particularly if there is a large log cabin and we spent about two months.

Why not? If you suggest to reduce the gap of 6-7mm, as well as the number of rows. Then name the originally gap that you are doing for one floor, and which one for two floors, etc. Otherwise your words just a theory and no more!
Yeah,.. it varies in a length! If you hold down the wood, even for a month, it will not revert back to its original position, only if would be wet.
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expert
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
I heartily wish you begin to appreciate not only what is in your head, but also be respectful to the interlocutors, and again, I do not remember how many times: buldozer, well, do not swear with everybody, you must understand at last, the other people with a “head” on their shoulders reading your posts on the forum and see tonly your battle against other builders and a slaver yourself beloved. It is wrong!!.
Here, what is represented in the blog is really fascinating, this is exactly what I wanted to see from you.
That project, in which you discuss a possible version of a roof made of polycarbonate and the second part of the roof in the grass, it’s a great idea!
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Summer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
Regarding the pictures confirmed the accelerated logging. I suggest you, if the people here are wondering, to insert links to the photo from the section of the site of Robert Chambers about the Accelerated Log Building. It is the right way!!. Maybe for someone a patent law is an empty sound, but not for me. And it's not that I'm trying to sew myself the wings and “bleach” them in white. The patent terms prohibit to do something on a secure technology, even for the educational purposes or for the personal use, even to confirm the accuracy of the information. Of course, we could not resist and checked. I asked questions, but certainly I did not get a specific answer. You have to pay and make more money. I said that I had 16 years of experience in the IT and communications from the same field of activity.

However, although I believed in it without any test, the technology works. It isn’t connected with the Canadian notch, this principle works on any notch.
To possible criticisms of my comments, I just want to answer and you didn’t try to believe people?
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bill
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
Let’s say that a Phoenix Timber is an industrial technology of a hand felling, which is called in Russia "in a post".
Industrially it was introduced in Canada, but it was patented in the United States.
What does it mean? that we can not cut into a post?
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
No, why not to continue, I'm the one of those who is with the shield. Given a high social importance of the topic for our customers, I fully agree "to burn like a meteor" and so, what? the consequence of it remains in the form of script Tahoma... Again, I repeat the choice in the headline of a topic is impossible to realize in a uniquely unreliable information. For all my "championship" of the "Canadian technology" (as for me I like, personally, the Norwegian one), the choice needs to be done in the direction of the Russian cabin, which, though devoid of all innuendo and fairly represented at different levels of quality in the market. The main audience of this forum (in terms of customers) are people who haven’t a Visa Platinum, who are reasonable to try to get predictable results for their money. I really liked the phrase of one girl somewhere in the forum "And has someone seen it?" (About the exotic cup, I do not remember the Norwegian, the Canadian, or the Chinese....).

Dmitry Stenyaev is forcibly tried to pull on this forum back in 2009. He read, saw and didn’t risk. As for me I have prepared for a long time, too.
And how do you know the level of Dmitriy’s ambition? ...


We must carefully examine a patent documentation, you can not patent commonly occurring things (such as a toothbrush) only by the fact that no one has done it before. The invention has a question of a novelty (if such things were done repeatedly before, however, the authorship is not stated and the mass use, then no patent committee, no other country will not issue the patent). Rather, the patent for this technology has the specific characteristics of the beam, the groove or the fixing, well, what else...

As for the expedited logging, it is not so gloomy, I try to persuade Robert to license for less money the patent which is out of date (which, incidentally, does not protect his rights in Russia). We would pay him a good sum on each carcass. The most recent new patent registered in Russia, too, now. You can even learn it, making a request.------
But there is another argument for the proposal to license the old one. You know something about our great inventor Alexander Ilyin, who invented (and in a complete informational isolation) an advanced carpentry feature – a blaster that he patented.
So, that's a part of his patent, and the principle of work explained in the Internet (a copyright takes effect unconditionally from the moment of publication), allows us to safely use the accelerated cutting, though in somewhat an abridged version...
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expert
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
One of the reasons for creating this theme was the fact to found in the Internet a systematic review and the associated methods and techniques.
In our country there are not even regulations on the wooden house construction, as for example the Norway or the North American standards, except for the Intergovernmental Standard State Standard 30974-2002. "CORNER CONNECTIONS OF WOODEN LOW-RISE HOUSES".

Honestly, I do not share the apostolic position of your blog for some, no doubt, the Canadian and Norwegian Masters of log cabin. (I mean Robert Chambers and others).
Maybe I missed something, but there is no "revelation", I think you know what I mean, the knowledge that can be accessed only by the enlightened mind.

Their main and great merit without exaggeration is that they organized and compiled all the skills that they possess.
Unfortunately, nobody hasn’t done that before.
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
Yes, there is no canonization.
You will probably agree that at the present time there is a totally unacceptable attitude to the inherited information, and especially, to the great invention of human – the book. Because about the inherited information there is a well-known Russian proverb about whose who learn from one's mistakes. I consider myself lucky to be born in the Soviet Union, I remember a time when in a situation of choice between a sausage and a book, our people, in most cases, chose books.

So, I praise books (it was not necessary to do it before, I remember you come to my grandmother who had 5 years of education and you saw at least on the shelf as three books about home canning, some kind of "Housekeeping" wrapped in a newspaper (with paper clips), recipes and even the notebook, where leaflets with advice from the tear-off calendar collected, or newspaper clippings). to praise in order to create a critical mass of people with whom you can talk to at least in “one language”. Two heads are better than one. As you can see, these people are many. Doctors, clerks, electricians, bus drivers and truck drivers, lift operators, vendors ... took in their hands books and started to learn cutting. Not because just they have no money (a crisis or someting else) or a curious hobby. No!! These people simply didn’t find next to them who could be achieved the level of quality in the construction of wooden houses. This is absolutely not saying that there are carpenters nowhere, maybe they just were not lucky.

And they build. Many of them don’t hesitate to show in order to get some advice (better to see once ...), to get positive emotions from the praise (this is a very important moment in training)... 8-)
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
You can find some drawbacks in their buildings, scoff at their architecture, but what is really rarely seen there is a violation of core principles. Some people have the instruction that allows you to answer the most complex issues - how to put a log, how to lay the crown, how to select logs, how to achieve a vertical wall, and so on....
You can learn how to confidently work with a saw or a grinder in a short time but it does not help to build something...

This is what I say that a detailed and accurate instruction needs a lot of power and a force.

And what about the inspiration? It certainly exists. In the twentieth century, many new things were created in log home building. It is not right to think that it is a "gasoline-powered saw". There are fundamentally different approaches to the construction as the engineering system. How will you build a log cabin by the forums with an ax or a chainsaw, it's your choice. But certainly there log wall will not fall down on you in a year, and with the enough patience and care, even the boots are not needed.
And the inspiration is the creation of a completely new thing which was not previously. And they took place. And the new cups were designed and the grooves, and even a new principle of stacking logs in a log cabin, and marking devices.
The same Alexander Ilyin came to the same thoughts about a new method of logging, as Robert in New Zealand. When I showed him the latest patent with the mechanisms, he had just cried. It was oversome!! wow ... I did it and invented in 2003.And tried.. But I considered it too expensive for our area and a crew (he was from a tiny town) and he didn’t patent ...
And I believe him implicitly, if he had not received the irradiation and didn’t understand the subtleties of what made him crying, he would never have made his feature.
Can we already stop talking about the Canadian cabin? or then again screaming about specific millimeters and grams will begin. Characteristics and differences, for example, of the Russian notch are clear...

Well, let’s begin talking about the Norwegian notch. It likes me a lot. I would like to dedicate a large chunk of life to it ... :P
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bill
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
Hello
I have the information and quetions including the topic concerned. I would be grateful for the responses and your comments.
I'm going to build a sauna with a guest house about 100 meters
If you can help me, please clear my mind and help me to make the right decision. Wanted to sort out how and from what to build the house, I went to one firm. I talked to the owner-director of the company there ( Ivan Ivanovich). Frankly, this man is an educated psychologist, and I'm pretty sure that 90 percent of people who came to him, ordered the house from him: the man as it seems has in the staff of 100 people, but he looks like a shaby man who wears the old-fashioned sweater and pants that were ironed two years ago, a thick man with old books about log home building, the icons are everywhere. But every one has its own methods.
A summary of his words:

1) The house must be built of a pine wood (a larch cracks, a cedar is soft and fragile, an aspen affects, a fir cracks much and more gnarly). I agree with this principle, except, perhaps, the larch (I think that it is a good stuff);
2) There are two kinds of pine: “Rudova” (a fine-grain with a high of 40 meters, a degree of tapering not more than 0.8 to 1 m, more rugged and durable, grows at the junction of the Vladimir and Ryazan regions in so-called Meshchora, in Mordovia, and on the west of Arkhangelsk area;) and a flagon (a solid with a height not more than 33 meters, less durable and not so durable as Rudova, grows in all other places in Russia). The guy says that from the flagon fir you can only build utility structures, so in Kostroma, Tver, Vologda, Kirov the forest is bad compared to the flagon. The house must be built from the Rudova pine. I looked in the Internet: the Rudova pine is better, I agree. But at the same time that guy has sharply reduced a geography of selection of forest (what about famous Vologda, Tver, Pskov, and Siberian forest?). There is, of course, another idea, his man has representative offices in Meshchora.
3) The caulking must be done with a moss, as it grows into trees and is a natural antiseptic. I agree with that.

4) To cut into a bowl, but with the so-called cutting (for the strength and warmth of the corners). I also agree, as I understand that it looks like a Norwegian style.

5) A man agrees to cut the houses only from the logs (after a final finishing) not more than 24-26. He did not agree to cut logs of the thickness of 28, 20 and over, because as he said that the degree of tapering will affect the process and he will not be able to stake logs in the wall parallel. I honestly did not understand this idea.
6) The House should be chopped, the milled timbers are nothing. The laminated board is cheaper in abroad, then milled logs. I do not propose to discuss, everyone has his own opinion.

As a result, most importantly, I want to understand what is the Rudova pine (whether it is fundamentally true, or not) and the thickness of timbers (is it possible to make a normal log frame from the logs of 28-30 cm?)
Thank you in advance.
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baltazar
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
A natural habitat type is the Pacific coast of North America.
* The tallest tree was found in summer 2006 in the Redwood National Park, the height of "Hyperion" that was called the tree of 115.5 feet.
The researchers said that the damage inflicted from a woodpecker on the tree at the top, prevented the redwood from reaching a height of 115.8 meters (380 feet).
• The previous record holder of the now-growing was the "Stratospheric Giant" in the Hamboldt Redwoods National Park, in California, its height is 112.83 feet, the last measurement was in 2004 (in August 2000 - 12,34 m, and in 2002 - 112,56 m).

* Before the "Hyperion" the tallest tree of all time has been the "Giant Dayervil" also in the Humboldt Redvuds National Park, its height was measured after its fall on March 1991 and amounted to 113.4 meters, and the age was 1,600 years.
• * From living trees 15 are more than 110 m in height.
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expert
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
I am a specialist in a wooden architecture (I have my own construction company), I can comment your question at this way: Our ancestors were not fools, and construction techniques were dictated by the natural conditions in which people lived.
For example in the Urals and beyond the Urals right up to the Amour the cup is cut on the bottom log, and in the central areas, because the climate was more humid and the moisture was not inside the log cabin. A half timber appeared only in places where the extra wall insulation was needed, it is easier to trim, and the clay does not stick on the sapwood (the outer layer of the trunk under the bark). I understand a fashion or beautiful pictures, and so on.. BUT People say, "Where you were born, there you were practicable". I remember another joke: What is good for the Russian, a death for the German. And so on.
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
It’s a nonsense! - A half timber appeared only in places where the extra wall insulation was needed, it is easier to trim, and the clay does not stick on the sapwood (the outer layer of the trunk under the bark).
The half timber is much warmer than logs of a large diameter. And the insulation is not needed. Norwagian hace never warmed half timbers 18, but they have a low temperature and the heating is not cheap. I believe that the half timber appeared in our land, and only the wealthy people ordered it, because the building from the half timber is a very time-consuming work compared with the milled logs. Stupidly to trim the half timber but this is the same Norwagian technology of homes with massive columns – the posts.
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Summer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
On the other hand it is easier to make the half timber than just to dress boads by a plane knife, as the electric bench planes didn’t exist. And now it is easier to do the half timber than a milled log. Not a wealthy peoplev as in Norway, but smart people did not build their homes from the half timber, but just made walls dressed inside. In addition, why the half timber can be warmer than the logs? Especially for 18 half timber that cracks even with through holes, so it does not even warmer timber of 24, and the same angle will be thinner in a cross section, so it will freeze faster, even if you take the Norwegian notch.
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bill
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
In one town, the main building of the middle past century was performed by the houses from the half timber of 180. I do not need to explain a climate zone. And in addition to insulate them there are no volunteers. A caulking and a siding for the maximum. And nothing is freezing. And why do they use the half timber?
Because the building was carried out by a centrally-state. And the boards obtained by cutting the half timbers, left to the same construction. Rafters, purlins, floorings.
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buldozer
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Тема: Re: Russian, Canadian, Norwegian log house.
The outer skin is an insulation. You also know unwell those who live in these homes, and as for me, I know them very well and not only in towns, but also in the villages, as practically one office built them, notably a Forestry Administration. Apart from these faults, where they are a “sea”. And they do not plan to insulate because someone who was smarter, have provided the home with heat insulation as could, especially since there was no such insulation as now. And who is still livung in these homes, have no money for better housing or just got accustomed to and satisfied with everything. And the corners in these houses freeze to the ceiling, because they were done carelessly. The money for the builders was paid, but they didn’t care for the rest. I even knew those who worked at teams, if the people do not drink, then they could withstand for a month. So, our houses are not a good example to show how to build.
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