log home wiring ideas

[baltazar]

Good afternoon! Now, it is my turn to do the wiring in a wooden house, of course, I want to make it hidden, as I want the aesthetics in the new home. I will sheathe the house with the imitation timbers along the guides, i.e. there will be a place for the wiring). I can’t search the forums how to make the wiring safest. I understand that it will be right but still. As I have a separate lot, then it is not necessary to pass the wiring.
And so, after collecting all the opinions, I want to do so:
1. An iron shield,
2. A VVGng wire, the usual sockets 2.5 to the light of a 1.5 square. Vending machines respectively 16 and 5 amps.
3. The wiring will ripple in the metal or black metal ripple in a PVC sheath ... By the way do not you think if we need a braid? Then the oxygen supply will be limited, of course, provided that all the ends of the wire were treated with the special sealant. Incidentally, I will caulk with a sealant anyway as there will no traction in a channel. The choice of the metal sleeve, based on the fact that it does not burn, of course, it can transfer the heat to the wall, but I do not think that it will be critical. Just a replace of wires in the metal sleeve is much easier than in plastic flutes.
4. I will fix a crimp to the wall with special ears. So, nothing will be hanging out.
5. Everything is soldered insulated and on top the insulation which shrinks when it is heated by a cigarette lighter. Sorry, I forgot the name.
6. All the twists in the outer box, or rather outside it will now only covers of those boxes), that is also aesthetically.
7. On power lines my own cables with their individual machines and a straighten line directly from the panel.
8. In general, I will try to use the twists to a minimum.
So, Did I miss something?
I will be glad your advice and recommendations, can someone say its word for ordinary plastic crimp. It is certainly much cheaper), Thanks!

[Summer]

If the wiring is hidden in a wooden house the metal hose doesn’t work. It should be in a metal tube.
Look for the search a "thin wall pipe". The rest is an indulgence. And it's not about to pass that or not, but your own security terms. The main reason why we need a solid pipe in a wooden house, I see as a mechanical protection of cables. 10-15 years will be forgotten, for the same period in the voids will be a dust. When you fix a cable with a nail or a drill, there is always a spark. The cable from it certainly is not burned. And for the fire the dust is enough. Therefore, a metal pipe is certainly better than a corrugated metal, but the metal crimp is certainly better than plastic (it even protects against rodents. But I do not see any sense in a plastic crimp, then you can just throw the wire.

[bill]

You are going to lay the mounting boxes under the floor? As I think it is not safe and not comfortable and if something happens what will you do? Disassemble the floor?
I build a wooden house made of lumbers. A NYM cable in a metal hose, than in a fireproof plastic pipe DKS. All outputs are sealed. The aisles between the walls a thick metal pipe. I don’t make junction boxes but then the expenditure is large. A horizontal cabling under the floor, a vertical cabling at the corners and near doorways. Sockets are on the plinths. It turns out very dreary, but I am calm. All the groups are protected and I also made a good ground.

[constructor]

I have not started to do wiring while I am collecting the information now. The original data, the house with the first timber floor 150 * 150, the second floor is a loft. I plan like that. From the shield under the ceiling of the first floor in the center I will put a wide metal box, I will not make hidden boxes and I will try to bring them to a logical minimum, to put the cable in a box (possibly in a ripple) from it I will place sockets and switches. A ceiling light for the rough profile. I have not decided what to do with an attic floor, I do not want to cut floor joists for laying boxes, so as not to weaken them thereby... Maybe should I make a crate across the lags and to lay there a box? A polypropylene box is used. 850 g calm. In the catalogs are registered for use a plasterboard and a lining. Spelsberg has the greatest range. How does it make easier the installation?
About a metal hose and 14.15 SP31-110-2003.
The metal sleeve is nothing but a "flexible metal tube" providing IP4H. For the hidden wiring in the no-go structures in the wood (a flammability of material T2 and T3) is a sufficient condition. And not only for a copper 2.5 mm 2. The requirement of localization ability appears using a very flammable material (T4). Break with a nail and a tin box. And the wiring under the plaster. But it does not need to lay the gouts.
The use of boxes for multiple cables and insulation at right angles make a constriction impossible. For the hidden wiring you can better use a separate gasket in a metal hose. It is best to use it bare without a PVC shell (it is better to ground). I don’t fight with a condensate.

[bill]

You do not agree with the definition of "tube" or as it metal?
Thoughtfully read 14.15 SP31, you will see that for tubes and boxes, IP4H is registered. For more combustible materials the requirements appear for deaf pipes and ducts. Try to explain the difference between the box with IP4H and a metal hose with IP4H (this is a metal sleeve without sealing). Well, except that it is square and round. The shell is the shell. The main thing that it provides a level of protection.

[expert]

Let's stick to the existing official documents.
I refer to SP31 as the most sensible and detailing this aspect of the document. I look, and you do not shun. In the first tab you noted 14.15. So, for the table 14.1 for the vast majority of possible groups (lights and outlets) a localization ability is not normalized (to 2.5 of a copper).
After all, how to keep a reference point? For the unknown uncle or a friend or to State Standard, directing the possibility of open cabling. By the way there is no saying about the hidden wiring? About the open one is even fun "it is allowed (with a difficulty) an open wiring and cables in metallic and non-metallic pipes and conduits without presenting to them a localization ability as well as an open wiring and cables in the protective shell".

[baltazar]

For a copper till 2.5 the thickness of the pipe is not on allocation. So, no need to juggle words, please.
Then, please give a State Standard for a metal hose, especially, a paragraph about their localization ability.
What is an open wiring? Don’t change a topic! Here, the argument about a hidden one. If you do not believe, look in the table of contents.
And once again, one of the important tasks of the pipe in a wooden house is a mechanical protection. And there is no metal hose is suitable.
So, keep arguments, not their own opinions. Your own opinion is always interesting, but only as long as it has the status IMHO, not assertions.
To be honest, of course, there is one group of metal hoses that have an ability of localization.

[bill]

1. SP "specifies and develops regulatory requirements including State Standard and new PUE, seventh edition". As a reference, except PUE there are still 11 State Standards and 7 other documents. The main are clearly fundamental State Standards. So, both PUE and SP are some collections. SP is narrower, but more detailed. The need for a careful handling with PUE was even mentioned in a State Standard! That is the case.
2. This fact does not change: the application of copper is up to 2.5 mm 2 to take care of ability there is no need, the thickness has no interest to anyone. And as I have already mentioned the requirement appears with the use of materials T4.
3. The State Standard 14254-96 covers a metal hose. I doubt that a 1 mm probe doesn’t fit through a "lock"? There are also neat manufacturers of metal hoses indicating the first figure of IP.
4. Look at the message! After the words "distort" and "change" are not our methods.
5. Once again: A tin box (even very dull) listed on a par with the trumpets, breaks with a nail with the same ease as the metal sleeve (this can even "automatically dodge"). And let's demand (for the heap) the performance of any flush in the thick water and gas pipes. As a plaster is broken with a nail. A fur protection is needed on a wiring, it is backed with a hidden form factor, which is actually hidden. It is not required to hold against a gun (PC), a drill and a "grinder".
6. When you begin to confirm your words by excerpts and links, they will be considered as an argument. Now, there is nothing.
7. Why so? Now, in our commercial field it is not necessarily to economically justify the use of material. You'll have to give, if you know. Not in a PVC shell? Thank you in advance.

[Summer]

1. Yeah, and you do not know exactly what you are worrying about. But. When using a metal box "in the application of a copper up to 2.5 mm 2 you don’t need to take care of a local ability. "A local ability condition is satisfied. Even for T4. For the wood a local capacity is not required. This is SP31-110. Yua are contesting a plate 1.14? or SP?
5. So, you should work neatly, to keep a radius. And a quality metal hose should be used, and the claims for the manufacturer. And then, who and how to break pipes and ducts laid hidden? Not a single house on my back. You offer to replace everywhere with a gas pipeline?
a) I don’t recommend ignoring a mechanical defense. But first, cite the requirements for use as a protection pipes.
Why do you mention the plate number 1.14? It shows that the thickness of the pipe is not standardized, but not a needless of a localization capacity.
If you still have read the SEP, the concepts of pipes and flexible metal hose totally different.
Although you said that was nonsense.
And the fact that it is written to protect mechanically the wire -was nonsense too. By the level of a flammability, even your G3 - is a gas temperature up 450 degrees, while a metal hose up to +100 C.

[constructor]

So, you decided, a metal hose for you:
1. a flexible metal pipe
2. a flexible metal hose
For G3 that is a pipe or a box and no hoses, and what you think it's the same thing, it is only for you.
p.s. Everyone can do as he wishes. Everyone can jump from a plane without a parachute, and not only when the airplane is on the ground. But consequences are different.

[Summer]

"A pipe is a cylindrical or profiled product, hollow inside, which has a large length compared to the cross-section. They are made of metals and alloys, organic materials (plastics, resins), concrete, ceramics, glass, wood and their compositions.
Used for a variety of environments, insulation or other grouping of wires, as a structural profile". A hose, strictly speaking, is not obliged to keep the form (a fire hose, a sleeve of clothes). A metal hose holds a form (cylindrical or faceted), and has a feature to change the direction (flexible). i.e. a flexible tube.
A material beyond any doubts is metal. Maybe you find it strange, but the box is also a pipe (see above - "a product profile"), rectangular.
"A spiral rolled type, manufactured with a spiral winding or a profiled stainless steel strip. Seals between the coils of metal hose are achieved by a special profile of the notch".
Even a dull box (for G4) is not continuous (seamless), has a rebate ("a bend or a seam at the junction of two thin metal sheets"). Not a deaf box (T3 and below), and all can’t have a lock, such as a spot welding on a lap. In general, the method of manufacturing joint ventures and are not interested in the product must provide a necessary security (not to have traversed more than 1 mm slot).

[expert]

Yeah, you're a dreamer! In a foil you can well wrap candies. No, of course, you can. Only for a constructive rigidity you should reel on specially. A foil is not weak. Especially, if you want to make an ability. But this is unlikely to reach. Let me remind you: "A localization capability is the ability of a steel pipe. A short circuit in the wiring laid in it, without burning its walls – a table 14.1.
The table 14.1 - The wall thickness of a steel pipe, ensuring its ability to localization "or you will roll a steel foil?
Not all pipes are whole (drawn and rolled). There are welded (by the way, spiral), thin for the wiring (Bertman, Tox). Where is in the definition of the pipe is written about its integrity? This concept is geometric. Although, in principle, a metal hose made of one piece (one band), and a stiffness it is not necessary, it is a "flexible pipe". There is anything about the stiffness. Moreover, about what was said a full compliance.
I will add. Ventilation pipes for some reason are not in doubt with the name (twisted, foil, steel) and with a steel hose which is used as an air duct, and as a conduit there is a lack of understanding. A pipeline is an artificial construction designed to transport gases and liquids as well as a solid fuel and other solids in suspension under the influence of the pressure difference in the pipe cross-section. Notice the "pipeline".

[buldozer]

The metal hose is the best option.
It is easier in Europe. There are no such stringent requirements. I saw a film about the construction of the Finnish sauna, where they spend 2.5 square plastic holders nailed to the wall. Well, if you are suffering, "suddenly that" no one stops to shove the wiring with a water pipe. Grooves can be in the wiring in the water pipe laid (what if?). These are such thoughts.

[bill]

Power inspectorates will have no questions at the stage of acceptance. You can even do without the frame, none will open the walls. If just something happens, then the conclusion will be only one "built without following rules and regulations" that pulls a responsibility for the consequences. And, of course, the denial of insurance if it is. Our country is bureaucratic; therefore everything must be stupid, even for a student. And once written a pipe than it means a pipe and not everything that appears in the structure. Negative profile properties for GCR (I have already mentioned):
1. The need to close the lid with the normalized gaps. Just fulfill all joints, bends, branches, especially the entries in the shields of the box.
2. Try to build a design with a 2-3 for 90-degree rotation and a stretch cord. All doubt on the possibility of replacing constriction will disappear. For a wooden house (with a shell timber paneling) is strictly use: an input - a steel hollow tube, a steel shield IP4H, a group layout – a metal hose, a gasket – a separate cable NYM, brass fittings, a lighting group is 1.5 mm 2 through AB in 6 A and collectively through 30 m ARCD, outlet groups of 2.5 mm2 through 10/30, a kitchen 16/30, boxes - metal connection boxes - a crimping insulated by the heat-resistant tube in a full lightning protection and a storage, SPD 1 +2, using only modules ABB.

[Summer]

A concealed wiring in the ceilings and walls of combustible materials shall be in accordance with the State Standard 50571.15-97, RB ed. 7, chapter 7.1, which do not contradict VSN 59-88, equivalent combustible walls and surfaces under a plaster that is done by laying the wire layer of asbestos sheet with a minimum thickness of 3 mm or snaring plaster thickness of not less than 5 mm. In this asbestos or plaster cloth should be laid on top of shingles or the last to be cut to the width of asbestos gaskets. An asbestos or gallop of a plaster should extend at least 10 mm on each side of the wiring.
A hidden wiring directly along inflammable structures and surfaces (except for the premises for animals) is allowed only in steel pipes and closed conduits. Vinyl pipes must be laid on a layer of asbestos sheet with a minimum thickness of 3 mm or snaring plaster thickness of not less than 5 mm, protruding from each side of the pipe is not less than 10 mm, except for the transactions made of wires and cables with no propagating combustion.

The most preferred in the individual wooden house is an open electric wiring or wires with a double insulation in electrical baseboards or boxes.
Localization (from Latin “localis” means “local”) is a restriction of a phenomenon by known spatial limits. To locate mean to prevent the spread of anything beyond a certain place.
In our case, a is the ability to limit the place of burning.
By the way on a flexible hose:
Standard: State Standard 50827-95 (IEC 670-89)
Degree of protection corrugated pipes: IP 55 according to State Standard 14254 (IEC 529)
Installation conditions of a corrugation: open / hidden wiring in the walls (along the walls), ceilings (in the ceiling) of non-combustible materials.
An installation temperature for corrugated pipes: -5 ° C to + 60 ° C. The strength of corrugated pipes: up to 5 cm 350N at 20 ° C (light series). A color corrugated pipes: gray RAL 7035 / other colors on request. The dielectric strength of the corrugated pipes: not less than 2000 V (50 Hz for 15 min. An insulation resistance of corrugated pipes: not less than 100 MW (500 V for 1 min.)
A fire resistance of corrugated pipe: does not support combustion.

[bill]

I have previously read an article from your proposed source, and I looked once again. The author neatly "toured" the term of a "metal hose" though the rest was good delved. As such phenomenon does not exist. (+ express observations: 1. Look at the pictures with the passage of overlap in a tube - the vertical box leaving only walls, the lining is naked, the seal in the pipe is not visible 2. For the comment to the picture with a "big" shield - in the transition from TT to TN-CS measurements are not necessary. The use of TT in a living house indicates that the author did not see p.7.1.13 PUE7.). The clarity of your thinking is not preserved due to extensive reading of the standard documentation. If there are texts of a primary source, try to deal with these in the last post PUE7, SP31, State Standard 50571-15 without a drift of roof. An example: the State Standard 50571-15 prohibits (!) using of boxes (not that profiles the FCL) in the cavities of building structures (tabl.52G).It is possible only in the special, no removable lids, i.e. deaf. But SP 31 allows it. But no mention of the possibility of flush on the lining (from PUE6). Looked at ways from the State Standard 50571-15. It is also missing. But I saw a figure "Insulated wires in special boxes on the walls, the AB № 4" with a clear presence of cover.
-14.15 Wiring in the cavities of the no-go false ceilings and inside the prefabricated walls are considered as hidden, and should be carried out:
- beyond suspended ceilings and in cavities of partitions made of non-combustible materials and a group of combustibility NG G1, an electrical wiring should be set by cables to meet the fire safety requirements of non-metallic and non-metallic pipe conduits and cables with an index ng-LS (a flame, a low smoke and a gas emission retardant);
- beyond suspended ceilings and in cavities of partitions made with using of materials of a flammability T2, the electrical wiring should be set by cables in metal pipes and metal boxes with a degree of protection at least IP4X;
- beyond suspended ceilings and in cavities of partitions made with using materials of flammability T3, the wiring should be set by cables in metal pipes and metal boxes with a degree of protection at least IP4X;
- beyond suspended ceilings and in cavities of partitions made with using materials of flammability G4, the electrical wiring should be set by cables to have a localization ability of metal pipes, as well as the metal boxes witch have the ability of localization. Electrical wiring must be replaced.

[expert]

WAGO terminal blocks are the great thing. Inside of that terminal block (black are so) there is a filler at first – a saledol that does not oxidize the wire over time. A contact terminal block area is enough for more current 5 times. In our company we use only the WAGO terminal blocks (making equipment for passenger cars). Currents are up to 70 amperes, and a contact is just a spring-steel plate adjacent to the wire. Nothing will ever get hot. Such compounds pass all certification testing, (and these are passenger cars, where the people and the hardware requirements are the most severe). Do you really think, the more turns in the twisting of wires the better it is a current? Oh, woe electricians. Read the law of Kirgof: a current follows the path of a least resistance. It passes on the connection of the first few micrometers of wires. Believe me, terminal blocks Wago are recommended. They nothing melt or burn. As well, the most household wiring has 20 amp and they are designed for much more.

[expert]

Now, let’s speaking about the internal wiring. Certainly, there are PUE. But that's the thing that PUE was written when the was no corrugated plastic in a production in Russia, so it was not considered. In fact, a metal hose is a thing terribly inconvenient. Sharp metal edges of the sleeves cut into the cable shamelessly, a big fault. In our company we use special plastic inserts on the ends. But they often come off and cut edge. A corrugation at ignition of a cable immediately compressed and extinguishes the fire. And then, by using modern machines, the ignition of a cable is an utter nonsense and a fantasy in its purest form. Even if the line machine does not work, the RCD will work, and if it fails, and (on a theory of probability it is still possible but it will be fantastic), then a machine will work. Of course, everything has the place to be if you have a normal machine.
Remember. Fires in the wooden houses only occur due to faulty connection in the sockets, and without the absence of automate

[buldozer]

1.7.1. This chapter of the Rules apply to all electrical wirings of AC and DC voltage up to 1 kv and more, and contains general requirements. Additional requirements are specified in the relevant chapters of RB".
Chapter 7.1 "ELECTRICAL wiring of residential, public, office and residential buildings," has its own requirements, containing these following (with some exceptions) buildings. References to the general provisions of ch.1.7 are incorrect, if there are additional requirements of a chapter 7. If they do not have precedence over the general provisions, then there would not be a sense in their writing. "The requirements of this chapter are interrelated. You should keep in mind that a complex partial fulfillment of requirements for electrical installations of buildings can reduce the level of electrical safety."
General requirements. The electric power supply.
7.1.13. The wiring should run from a network 380/220 to the grounding system TN-S or TN-C-S.
In the reconstruction of homes and public buildings with a voltage 220/127 V or 3'220 V, you should provide a translation voltage 380/220 with a grounding system TN-S or TN-C-S.

[bill]

Well, what can I say? Rule is there, but it does not work. Maybe you think the TT, and TP are also a kind of "plus" and as a result IT? I wonder how well-versed in these things man, you did not try to correct the situation (to drip with a whole village)? In RB registered and "more frequent grounding terms of protection against lightning surges". Remains in the "justification" to write: Because the electricity supply office does not live by PYU, to score a bolt and a pin in the ground (+), escape!! Someone who can. Oh, and on the input rather a strong surge must hang once without a lightning. In the agricultural sector, in principle, the problem solves. There is a wish to perform TT for individual apartments.