A "breathing" frame house

[bill]

Our old office is made of logs 180 x 180 and this year it was insulated from the outside insulated by the ecowool 120 mm.
it was attached to another office of 12 x 6 m, the wall thickness is 25 cm within an ecowool 8, OSB 12 and a siding,
the floor 30 cm, an ecowool, a wood paneling ceiling of 25 cm
ecowool. Very many clients notice that the new office air is easier to breath and it is more enjoyable.

[baltazar]

There is the essence. The people either build or promote, or there is nothing to compare..
It is just a fact .. It was strange for me to hear the reasoning of a thirty years old guy.
I walked around the house .. Oh, he say, you are well done.. I was unable to persuade my father at the time. I made a foam concrete outhouse to a wooden house .. I have a normal feeling in the house, but when I go to the outhouse, I feel the difference just by a skin..
I will add..
It it your right to feel comfortable in the vapor barrier bag, I'm not questioning that right. A little more venting, as I wrote .. The boiler is more powerful..
But!. Why does no one pays attention to what I wrote above -the properties of cellulose is to maintain an optimum moisture content for a human..
There was no ventilation, no substitute) It's not a forum of oligarchs?. Oh, I forgot to say - "only a ventilation through an indoor fireplace is very cool)).
The hands should be cut off of your builders)).
Although, why to break?. You have a lot of holes in your frame hose, but you live and think you have a "vapor barrier":-).
Heating costs - not too much trouble?. Areas, a ceiling height ..
Just take the time anywhere at - 20. Only for a few days?.

[Summer]

In principle, you are right, I try to base my judgments on the facts obtained from reliable sources, and not on someone else's words from the forum, which can only provide a food for thoughts, but can not be regarded as an ultimate truth.
So, if I said that the people could not smell the excess of CO2, then so, a modern science says it, and I am inclined to believe that science, until I get an evidence otherwise. It may be true, you feel the aura..
But why to argue, There is no good.

[Summer]

1 I said what I said. What does measure the environmental friendliness?. How bad is for wasps and for us the number of styrene, which allocates the foam or what does it produce?.
The wood also emits a formaldehyde, so, what?. And in any vegetables and fruits ther are alsi nitrates, because it is a product of metabolism of plants. And why to do it?. I said that the wasps are not afraid of the amount of phenol and formaldehyde, which allocates the OSB, and nothing else. You have summarized everything.
2. Not me, but my employer.
3. Apparently so, though I trust the standards, but I still check them by all available sources to me. And I find faults. What can I do, I was taught.
4. But if the wool in the holes is not wet, why the edge will be wet?. What the ecowool will have the same moisture across the surface of OSB independently if it is in the hole or not, I can categorically declare. Such are the properties of cellulose. It will be too wet, you don’t need to think about the edges.
And what about the holes in the OSB - it's nonsense. We do not need them. It is better to install the MDF on the outside, if you want to build a "breathing" house.

[constructor]

A modern science is so far from what a popular science fiction writes. A person can not feel the changes in a gas composition of the air, which he breathes. The human body can adapt to these changes without a visible loss for himself, it's true. But changes in the air will inevitably cause biochemical changes in the blood and then throughout the body. And people who have certain "bottlenecks" in the health will feel it.

[buldozer]

Actually it is exactly the opposite. If the ventilation is controlled, then it means that you can manage to create the optimum in terms of humidity and a heat treatment. There is the place where to put the heat exchanger.
But the passage of the mystical properties of cellulose is uplifting.
Well, tell me, please, how does the ventilation work through the cellulose wall in winter?. What is encouraged, where an air goes to, what about a steam?.

[baltazar]

The ecology and a siding are standards - a difference. The information for members of the forum, even a flour has PDC (maximum permissible concentration).
And, that the human body does not feel the increase of CO2 is only partly true. He doesn’t feel small fluctuations, but the increase of CO 2 at least 3% is very sensitive. He will be ill.

[Summer]

dear, baltazar!!. I am very impressed by your enthusiasm, but even being inexperienced in construction, I can distinct a comfortable living from uncomfortable. For example, in an apartment, in a brick house, I'm suffocating, the windows are always open, the humidifier is working, otherwise the child is not sleeping, there is no much heat, I twisted the batteries.
In the new house thre are no such problems. In the country, we are constantly drown convectors at + 18 during the week (my husband comes several times a week and on weekdays) and + 22 from Friday to Monday. On weekends, in the evening, we light the fireplace that warms the area of the house about 170 square meters, the ceiling on the first floor 2.70, a living room, in the attic 2.40, all rooms are heated, as a child is often worn in the morning naked.

[Summer]

Totally there are four convectors in the house. 3H2kVt + 1 kW, one heater of 2 kW (we began to support at the house + 13 and we didn’t swich on in the winter) and the electric underfloor heating in the amount of 0.8 kW, i.e, a maximum of 9.8 kW, 7.8kVt used, but the selection might only 7, so that everything does not work continuously. This winter has not yet been -20, the coldest days -15 in the morning and -18 at night. The cost of electricity (a heating, a water heating, a cooking) on December approx. 2000 kW (3500 rubles), 20 days of January 3000kVt.
That's fair, even removing the rose-colored glasses, do not see any holes.
Your passion for the cellulose insulation is fully supported.
I should add. The sharp increase in electricity consumption on January, is not associated with cooling, but with increased holidays and cooking not for 3-4 persons but for 10.

[bill]

Ohhh, damn, no one reads me or what?:-).
Dear, summer, specialy for you, I repeat - a system to maintain an optimum moisture content is so expensive that I did not even willing to discuss with you options for the price .. I'm telling you. And in this, case, I know whereof I speak ..
The people with very good money, refused ..
This is the level of the boiler and a heat pump)).
I have already written- you are an oligarch?. You are on another forum and don’t mislead people ..
I own the knowledge about a maintaining humidity quite professional, but not at the level of idle talk .. you angered me in the end).
I am sick and tired of what and where it moves.
I say the fact, mister theorist)). (oh, and I wanted to add "fucking", but pay attention – I did not add).

[buldozer]

So:

1) A rotary heat exchanger costs as a good TV, and a penny, compared to the cost of the house. If you do not use a gas, it pays for itself within a few years. A humidity is not supported, as such, but it solves the problem of withdrawal of moisture from the air in winter.
So, if you with good money were offered something, it was not necessarily that that was what they were really needed.

2) About cellulose there no magic things in these serious books.
The water absorbs. And a lot of things. If it is impregnated with a boric acid, it absorbs less, and without it, it will rot.
Advertising... I'm certainly not going to dig.

3) " am sick and tired of what and where it moves."
Well, not explaining the issue, it is not worth discussing "breathing” walls.

Most likely you just do not understand really what you are writing. By the way, in determining whether the person understands or not what he is talking, I'm just a specialist. Well, in physics and mathematics sciences, too, sorry.

[constructor]

that was 4000 kW)). I rubbed my eyes - already 2000)).
I honestly shared the first digit and my eyes dropped)).
Now, I divide the second number - 2000 ..
2.7 kW .. The average power consumption of electric heating in the house of 170 square meters.. On December ..
I'm not confused?.
You can not write to us from Australia?.

[expert]

"A system to maintain an optimum moisture content" ... ) Ohhh, a wet towel - do not fit?. Embroidered with pearls, like, well, that used for the oligarchs. Ha, Ha, Ha ... And what tells us an intimate knowledge of the maintenance of an optimum moisture content?. What should it be?.

[Summer]

No, well, honestly, tell me, please, this paradox - the humidity doesn’t support, but solves the problem .. Because the passage of a bunch of money is like an air)).
You wrote "it absorbs”. It’s true .. But then you twisted a soul .. It also gives) then .. When it will be dry .. This is the basic, and you rest against))
But, you can get into the pose and say – “and how the wood behaves with aan bsolute humidity?. I will answer honestly - you swim in the explicit known objects).
“Well, not explaining the issue, it is not worth discussing “breathing walls”.
And you know why?. Simply because the “luggage” of theorists is so poor and meager, that it is so funny sometimes. And maybe once will appear these theorists, who didn’t live in, but they know ..
So, think out more)).
Thanks, I have already known .. You say a physics?. That is, you want to say that I look like a humanist?:-).
So, you, dear ..Don’t be proud of your education!!, You will not find the people smarter than us, but without education)).
That I do not for myself)).
You should understand that I don’t build or sell, I just live in that I have built myself .. And I am just talking about my experiences ..
Now you say the same.
Where do yo live?, how old are you?:-) and so on.
So many people think so on this forum)).
This is my style)). Unique, but absolutely not bad ..
Humor, sarcasm, rudeness .. Take your pick)

[bill]

Approximately 55-65%, with a wet towel on the radiator you cant resolve the problem. This is the answer to the question about an optimum moisture content.
Reducing an indoor humidity to 40% in winter is a big threat to a road furniture from a solid (wood) and wooden floors. About the impact on the people I don’t speak.
Oh .. Your words be for opponents, to their ears ..
Living simply cracking in half .. Arrays ..
This is one f the reasons why the food and the furniture from an array are out of fashion now..
The framework is from array, the rest of the laminate. It's just a dogma for the not so rich clients).
But if you have a wooden house there is not a single case of cracking. ..
Maybe it's just a little thread for theorists)).

[Summer]

Unfortunately, I am very sorry. I doubled a consumption, but you can look into my topic for the control, where I cried and complained that I was sorry 3.5 thousands.
On December, for two weeks the tempereture was 0 and - 5, and for two weeks it was - 5 or - 10. A lie makes no sense for me.
The house is warm. The special savings, I think, were created by regular power cuts at home, and yes, I just 7kW for the house. and even you need to cook and to have a heat water. Warm floors are warmed up up to + 18 in fall, so, they work very rarely. In the bedroom on the first floor a convector is not activated if the door is open to a corridor. In the attic, the convector is only in one bedroom, in the rest rooms the door is opened just as no one lives there. In the living room the convector is also swiched on in the morning until the fire pit does not melt on the weekends, but there are two windows and a balcony door. In principle, when the light is turned off, you can survive without any convectors at night, the temperature will not be below + 16.
But I wonna go to Australia, though.:-):-)

[bill]

A humidity control, I'll leave aside, this post will be about CO2, i.e/ a carbon dioxide.
Here is a link to the article, which kindly provided by bill in another topic: http:/winews.ru/?id=8&nid=238
As it is seen that the content of CO2 in a room air at the closed window and doors in a wooden house is lower, than in the house with walls made of other materials, and it is kept at 1.5 g / m ^ 3. (See the scheme in the attachment).
Basically, I have not the reason not to trust the data from this article,despite of the fact that the experiment described there are not too detailed.
Physics of this phenomenon is not described in the article.
We assume that the alignment of the CO2 concentration inside and outside of the building is through leaks, inevitably present in the walls, and due to the increased partial pressure of CO2 in the room. A direct analogy: a water vapor, which also tends to go through the wall. That was described earlier in this topic.
It is likely that everything is happening so.
And what we have as a result?
Gas-permeable wooden walls, through which, without any ventilation, a content of CO2 in the room is kept at 1.5 g / m 3, i.e much smaller than for example in the house with concrete walls (11-15g / m 3), or brick (5-7r / m 3). It would seen great.
But what is the normal CO2 content in the fresh air?
CO2 concentration by weight at standard condition is 0, 046 %.
Or, taking into account the density of air at 20 ° C is 1.2kg / m 3 0.55 g / m ^ 3.
So, in a wooden house from the experiment, the CO2 concentration is 3 times higher than the concentration in a clean air. (Such excess a person does not feel).
In principle, the excess in 3 times is lower than the MPC. But why build a house in the open air?. Then, to breathe the air with an excess of CO2?. No, please.
So, I think that ventilation is required.The air is much cleaner and fresher with it than just with gas-permeable walls.

[baltazar]

Don’t you have a hygrometer?.
It would be interesting to know what moisture do you have in a wooden house, and what is in the frame part with an ecowool?.

[bill]

Because the maintenance of moisture in the strict sense is a really complicated thing. When it comes to an art gallery, for example, it is important. But in a suburban environment with consumer point of view, the main problem is the dry air in winter. The main objective is an energy saving.
Not everything is so easy. Take instead of wood a foam or a gas concrete.
Paropropuskanie them even more, accumulate less moisture, but only a quarter-panel is thicker than the wood, so there will be a lot of water. So that there is no fundamental difference between the foam concrete and the wood.

But the key question of when and where the material will give a moisture is very important, but you do not think so and dismiss.
So, the question is known and practically very important, and therefore quite well studied. Trying to ignore the lessons of centuries of experience and experimentation resultaty is unwise. And if you don’t know the question, only considerations were formulated on some practical experience, the price of them is quite small.

[Summer]

Like a theory that (microcircuit) chip work on a smoke. In fact, the smoke came out – and a chip does not work anymore.
Well, it is not necessary from your personal experience to build such theory. Because all these experiences, it is necessary to study in great detail. You never know what factor actually affects it.
And then as in the lecture about the dangers of wearing rubber shoes, one man stands up and says exactly that's it, sprinkled under a fence in a ditch, the head bursting, but on feet, then, the rubber boots, that's it!. No my personal experience can’t give a lot, because it is a serious matter, and it can not be solved subjectively. But why, the experience of almost five decades
living in different environments, from the dugout to the five-star super modern hotel confirms a theoretical proposition that the breathing of house is a question of wall constructing at home, and certainly it is not a positive factor of comfort.
You are righ, and you are constantly change the concept of moisture and air transfer. Oh, it is not accident, though.
Dear readers, watch magician hands!.