A "breathing" frame house

[Summer]

If in the house the ratio - a number of people for a volume is small, then the difference can not be felt. But this does not mean that it doesn’t exist at all.
In St. Petersburg there is an exhibition called "Kyumleno". The Finnish houses, in a large part, form a paneled technology (The Finnish home), and “Honka”. I can say definitely there was a difference "to the naked eye."

[constructor]

Ohh. I have read the topic here and I was stunned. "Breathing Walls", OMG. apparently in view of many people. There are the walls that produce the correct air (in order not to make cracks in the windows and a forced ventilation), but they are not destroyed themselves and do not lose the heat.
Sorry, engineers, but this is impossible!.
Any wall, if it "breathes", then a mass transfer is through it (the air comes out of the room and the new one comes in). In the implementation of mass transfer and a heat transfer occurs. These are the laws of physics, or more exactly a thermodynamic. The only thing that opposes itself to the rules of thermodynamics - that's life. A conclusion - the wall must be a living membrane, which displays a carbon dioxide and the excess water through itself on the street, but it takes from the street an oxygen into the room. Why it is “alive”?. Because we believe the pressure inside the house equal to the pressure outside the home.

[baltazar]

Well, the builders finally began to doubt of the omnipotence of recuperators and other expensive adapted technologies to remember the dignity of solutions found by nature. No wonder that the evolution has equipped animals for a breathable protection from the cold with a fur and feathers, and not a dense shell, as the southern resident rhino.

[bill]

Friends, I think, we try to discuss some theoretical aspects, I have tried to address the question to professional builders. We need a concrete, practical advice on how to build a wall of a frame house for summer living. I want the wall to meet the criteria in the descending order:
1. ecological friendly - the maximum approximation to the wooden house;
2. A heat capacity- saving warmth and coolness (-15 to +30);
3. An efficiency – cost and quality.

[expert]

How could this happen!. It's impossible! ", - said the enlightened citizens “Giordano Bruno”.
As the self-evident propositions:
- The air is a mixture of gases.
- The air pressure inside and outside the home is not the same, even in an uninhabited house.
- The air pressure is the amount of the partial pressures of its components.
A gas exchange is due to the difference of the partial pressures of components. Accordingly, in an "alive" house there is a carbon dioxide, a carbon monoxide, the water vapor is leaving the house, the oxygen goes inside, the rest "walks" depending on a pressure difference.
A heat transfer occurs in the wall. Since only a portion of air is exchanged, it gives you some savings.
I hope the post number 4 wasn’t worthless.

[bill]

Good afternoon colleagues!
It is a very interesting topic here. And I decided to join!!.
I read about the presence in the assortment of serious producers (du Pont. etc.) the breathing vapor barrier. for the principle of operation it is similar to “Tyvek”, only a water vapor permeability is smaller than its. The vapors go into isolation, and extend through the wind alternation. Only the price for such vapor barrier was not cheap.
I am still thinking that our condemnation is a mainly psychological issue. I also think that the frame houses have been built more than hundred years and a good vapor barrier is made the last 50 years. A critical problem with that is not revealed.
In the attic arranged on this principle, the people live.
You can trim inside by lining or clap boads, I will bind an internal moisture, plus make a normal small vent installation.

[Summer]

The key point that for a frame house with the use of windbreaks (filmed) and vapor tight films an artificial ventilation is needed (forced). For a summer (holiday) use of the house it does not matter, because the windows are still opened, the air is a natural way. The entire dispute over the winter (last fall) season, when windows are open and there is a strong heat loss. And a clapboard cladding, as a measure to improve the environmental performance at home as I think is a stupid activity, because the air passing through the linings (a steam in it) collides with the film, there it stops its movement. The condensate falls on the film without a sufficient ventilation and a lining will be mold from inside.

The conclusion for me: if we start from the approach of a frame house up to the environmental timber house, then you need to use as a heater the ecowool, no films on both sides. Or to meet these characteristics (an air permeability, the water absorption) material, which replaced the outdated foam (which is in fact slipped out of my head, what's its name).
Here is the article http://www.stilkon.ru/site/?part=article31 about the air permeability and other characteristics of different kinds of membranes. It is interesting to analyze the name of the topic.

[baltazar]

Should I get matches?.
Thank you for having remembered a physics. Now, we complicate the task. So, present the process is not in the two test tubes, but on the boundaries of the parallelepiped, a volume of several hundred cubic meters (10 x 10 house with two floors). Let's calculate the partial pressure on each (!) site. And then we add possible (!) air streams (including the aerodynamics), the random variable-pressure wind, we calculate the capacities of membrane ... An equation in the amount of partial, 5-6 orders of magnitude. So, I wrote to you as an engineer. If you consider all the factors – there will be an unmanageable task of immense complexity, which is real and does not require a decision. Therefore, to simplify the equal pressure!.
The oxygen comes and it goes. The membrane, which would support a desired humidity and the concentration of carbon dioxide on one hand, and the superfluous will get thrown out or outside – it can only be alive.
Everything else is a sieve, which brings a warmth, but "breathes", or requires a ventilation.
I love the word "some savings". Just I’m love in it!.

[Summer]

I think no one questioned that is much warmer in the frame houses with all provisions of films than in the wooden houses (with an equal heating of m 3 space). And a forced ventilation for the normal functioning balances a heat loss. The choice is for you. to accept the device of an additional ventilation is difficult, I will prefer the wood. And someone will look at a frame house and will be also pleased. I can not see for myself the subject of debate.

[buldozer]

I tried to present the formulation of your problem. I realized that I have learned so many years for nothing.
When the people are talking about the breathing walls, my favorite argument is that the wooden house the head does not hurt after drinking a vodka. Let's put aside a theoretical physics with a thermodynamics and then move to a full-scale experiments. I suggest setting an experience: in a pre-scheduled day, the "breathing” and not “breathing” drink some “vodka”, and then on Monday everybody will tell about the head. If you pick a multi-age group, the experiment must be clean. should we discuss?.

[expert]

Ladies and Gentlemen!!. You're all raving about!. A vapor barrier is necessary in any house designed for a winter residence. And a ventilation (one form or another) is necessary in any house designed for a winter residence. For example, a plaster (if the walls made by building regulations and codes) – why a vapor barrier is bad?. And a furnace (right) – why it is bad as a ventilation system?. everthing written is a nonsense about the "breathing” (well, it is not sobbing or singing). by the way, it does not detract from the merits of the wood as a unique building material.

[bill]

I have the same problem now, the choice of walls for the frame for a small serie of small houses. I made such findings.
Here as I can tell the difference between a wood and a frame doesn’t exist. I lived in a wooden house, I had lived for a week in a frame house and it was the same.
Maybe do you mean a thermal conductivity?. because the frame house has a low heat capacity. Then to each his own. I'll probably wrong.
the step of posts is 50 cm.
1. A plywood (FK) 9 mm is inside.
2. An ecowool 150 mm.
3. Kraft paper, or a cheap windscreen.
4. a gap of 3 cm
5. Siding (instead of siding you can take anything else but the cheapest one).

[Summer]

Well, "the ultimate truth", has come, and everything is in place now. "What is the power, my brother?" (C) In all likelihood, those who shouts loudest. And the calculations aren’t calculations, and graphics aren’t graphics, and a practical experience is nothing. "I SAID" ... And most importantly, no one disputes. The wood, like any filter can become clogged over time and a ventilation in form of the stove is out of place. But have you seen a vapor barrier in a log cabin?. Where have you seen it?. I have never seen it, I practically grew up in a village in the Mariyskay ASSR. when was this innovation?.

[bill]

Very sorry, guys!
I will tell you my observations!.
I have lived in a frame houses from March. A summer was spent .. A half of winter.
The house is insulated with a plastic foam. There are no films!.
I am reading.. I do not understand anythimg.. None of that!.
No moisture and humidity ..
A thermos? It is a nonsense!. Oh, a bullshit!.
Maybe I'm not seeing it?. Or I don’t live correctly?.

[baltazar]

A breathable frame house.
In Saratov region there is a classic chopped log house, it does not have a satisfactory performance for a comfortable stay. That is either it's trimmed inside and outside, plastered with a clay and sheathed with boards (coated by bricks, as a variant), or it is cold in it. Or, alternatively, constantly a gas boiler threshes strongly - it's a ventilation – a ventilation is so, the logs should "breath" with that amount of air!. And how is in the Mariyskay ASSR?. Are the stoves stoked?. Does in the log house is very hot?. Did you see barefooting children walking in the winter?.

[constructor]

Did you read everything carefully?. The matter is in films!. The foam is breathable.
A russian stove, with the bed, as expected, for a half-house. The underground is volume (the insulation from the ground is good). Children are barefooted, a thickness of floor wasn’t bad. Yes, and beautiful hand-made rugs were always present ... And where did I write that a log house was warmer than a frame house?. So show me with a finger". (C) We are talking about breathability.

[expert]

You see, constructor?. A lot of people write about thermos .. but everybody is still in dullness .. Where do you take the moisture issues?. It is very interesting!. Doors and windows are never opened?.
I have a sauna in the house. I deliberately open the doors. Because the house is heated by convectors. They dry the air.
I do not understand the question! I'm very sorry ..

[constructor]

I do not know. We have a good house, the neighbors hace a sauna, you can’t breathing. Their airbox did not perform its function, it was initially disturbed during the construction, and the people helped. The complex of works was performed: we built a pipe to the roof for a better traction, then we put a fan with an extract from the apartment, the windows were changed to the plastic, but ventilated. It has become much better, but not perfect. We air very often, and they are afraid of much wind. But perhaps we produce more water.

[buldozer]

Usually, in a niche of vent box we put a fridge. There was a case of offended tenant, he dropped a weight from the attic to a vent shaht!.

[Summer]

It’s very cool, that the Soviet building codes ( SniP) II-3-79 normalizes the air permeability of the walls and ceilings including residential buildings not more than 0.5 kg / sq.m.h, And so, it admits a real ventilation through the exterior fence). The current trends, in particular, the requirement of wind-waterproof films over the outer shell frame, including OSB are not the same.
But in general, IMHO, the "breathing walls" is a marketing thing, as it was been repeatedly contacted (by experience). Of course, if it is blowing in the gaps, the air is always fresh). And if you do not have cracks, you need a good carving. The same basic problem concerns the plastic windows in model homes, designed with the expectation of carving through the "Soviet" window units. These windows, IMHO, are an example of marketing bullshit. We try to get a tightness, then to fight it with a ventilation).
Well, the "breathing walls" - this is when a ventilation is arranged directly on the walls. Why?.