A "breathing" frame house

[buldozer]

Yes, It is a very obvious way, but this is a wooden house...
Doors and windows are closed, but "the house was not stuffy, but dry". How does it happen?. A very breathable house?:-))

[bill]

You're a heating engineer. This is your bread.
Tell me, pleae, how much is the obstacle in the form of gypsum + siding of tree and in the form of metal for capillary moisture?.
You know, I know 500 Finnish words, no more. In English, probably even less. Plus any professional text, even in Russian sould be translated in a popular language!. This, I mean, maybe you will tell us. What it meant?.

[constructor]

Many of this forum readers do not speak English or do not understand what is written in these articles. Each link must be accompanied by explanatory comments rather than inventions, as you say. In your post there are some links. There is a suspicion that you even do not understand them. And you don’t dispel these suspicions.

[Summer]

Thanks for the link about "breathing house."
A brief conclusion you have already resulted: a ventilation is required. Now, a little more details for those who would not read them. And for those who have already read them, please, correct me if I misunderstood somewhere.

1) The study design was chosen a wall construction with the greatest gaz transmittivity of CO2.
As a result, we decided on the design for the exterior walls:
- A Wallpaper (a paper wallpaper?)
- A Gypsum board 13 mm (a gypsum fiber board? GCR?)
- A Cellulose insulation 150mm (ecowool)
- A Porous fiberboard 12 mm (fiberboard?)
Also we picked up the construction of interior walls and ceilings. (I will not describe in detail, see page 35 for the header (36 in pdf)).

Further we simulated a situation: a bedroom 3 * 4, a ceiling 2.7, a closed window 2m ^ 2, and a closed door. 2 people are in it for 8 hours and devote every minute 215 ml CO2 (quiet sleep).
The temperature outside and inside is + 20 C. [P 35]
It turns out that to maintain a good air (1000 ppm of CO2) in any case, a good ventilation is required multiplicity of 1.2 volume per hour.
And in this case breathing walls don’t particularly help: they are only 5-10% extra reduce the amount of CO2. [P 36-37]
In the case of the "bedroom problem", when a ventilation is inadequate (~ 0.3 volume per hour), and with the "breathing" walls of the concentration will be ~ 3000 ppm, and for the "breathing" by ~ 30% less. [P 36-37]
For comparison, an 8-hour presence at a concentration of 5000 ppm was considered harmful. [Table 2.1]
In addition, at a temperature lower than 20, the CO2 permeability of materials is reduced. [Written in several places].
A gas permeability at low ambient temperatures in the article is not considered.
I note that in the article many simplifications and assumptions, and they write about it. But we can definitely do some conclusions.
P.S. On your other link, where are two walls: a mineral wool with a vapor barrier and an ecowool with an asphalt paper, I do not understand why. What is clear that an ecowool the moisture in the wall is much higher than the mineral wool.
Yeahh, and another facts...
The concentration of CO2 in the article is in ppm.
For comparison, the concentration of CO2 in a pure outdoor air = 350 ppm.

[Summer]

A porous fiberboard is not a fibrolite but a fiberboard,
apparently, a soft windproof slab, a type of isoplaate / SOFTBOARD. which we have already mentioned more than once. From the linguistic: a fiber board 1) a hardboard 2) a fibreboard
adj. porous [] porous, spongy

[bill]

About the humidity. The advertising article about the ecowool at a Spanish site has an illustration that the optimal level of human humidity is 40-60%.
When you exit a humidity of this range you can get the risk of bacteria, viruses, and various diseases. It is increasing.
But I do not really understand how can vapour walls in winter help to improve a humidity in the house?. Indeed, by definition, a vapot will leave them.
The inertia of a change of moisture content is also not a definite plus.
Earlier I wrote that I had a lot of books at home. So,for a week a humidifier turned on continuously, the evaporation of 10 liters per day, I can not increase the humidity above 30%. Apparently, books, a furniture and other items absorb the humidity.
In a less humid inertia of my room I think, to regulate the humidity would be easier.
About the accumulation of excess moisture in summer.
Perhaps, now, the ecowool helps.
The article is about the help of ecowool in reducing a humidity to 60% in Spanish homes.
In short, the question of humidity as it seems to me, must be divided into three parts:
1)A water vapor permeability of the wall:
- Whether it is necessary?
- Under what conditions it is safe for constructions (a permanent residence / a cottage, a climate, etc.)
2) the accumulation of moisture in winter:
- You need it? Again, under what conditions, etc.
- If so, what is easier to provide: an ecowool or a siding.
- How to make it safe for constructions.
3) The accumulation of moisture in summer.

[baltazar]

. 1) In my opinion, a vapor permeable wall is not needed, at least in our climate:
- In winter it hinders a high humidity in the house;
- the risk of condensation inside the wall increases, if a condensation is not observed in a warm climate of London, it could fall in Moscow and in Russia and in many colder regions;
- An air permeability of vapor-permeable wall - it's not such a big plus, for which is better to fight by any means (as described above).
2) If you take the option of permanent residence, it is possible the accumulation of moisture is a plus.
If, however, set a goal to get a humidity response, then we can consider this option: the walls with a vapor barrier, and between the inner lining (eg lining), and a vapor barrier to fill a few ecowool see.
And the frame will be protected from a condensation (when a heated wall in the inner ecowool there will not be a dew point), and we will get an accumulation of moisture.
(You may have enough moisture to accumulate and only wooden interior paneling?).
3) The accumulation of excess moisture in summer might be enough of the same options as for the winter.
What will you say?.

[bill]

Further we simulated a situation: a bedroom 3 * 4, a ceiling 2.7, a closed window 2m ^ 2, and a closed door. 2 people are in it for 8 hours and devote every minute 215 ml of CO2 (quiet sleeping). The temperature outside and inside is + 20.
It turns out that to maintain a good air (1000 ppm of CO2) in any case, a good ventilation is required multiplicity of 1.2 volume per hour.
And in this case breathing walls are not particularly help: they only 5-10% extra reduce the amount of CO2.
But I made different conclusions. A bedroom 3 * 4 and a padlock door.
An ecowool has a bad air permeability. But even this air 120 kvm will be enough.
Somewhere here, the people wrote about a "window leaf" of wooden bars in a brick house.
What does prevent combine the ecowool, with a straw or a polystyrene ?.
And a little problem with this 8th grade of physics. The calculation of the partial pressure, a resistance of walls and we obtain the required flow.
Just everyone needs 50 liters per hour.

[baltazar]

In a less humid inertia of my room, I think, to regulate the humidity would be easier.
I do not know how the humidity is for books, but the books for moisture are good. You will understand when you would forget to water. To increase the humidity i can advise to reduce the a vetilation widow 2 times. In winter, among other things, the thrust in the pipe is much stronger. And it shall comply with the norm in summer with a weak draft.
-Accumulation of moisture in summer.
In summer it is hot, but the moisture does not accumulate.
- How to make it safe for constructions?.
The thicker the lower the humidity. Is it the same thing with the books?.
- 30 Cubes of what?
Perhaps the air.
And I'm talking about CO2, and with the stock if that person works.
Resting teenager is enough 18.
A sleeping adult, according to the article: emits 215ml of CO2 continually (quiet sleep) – 13 litrov.
But, No!! 50 is a bust. You can not work forever. 40 per person is a maximum.

[expert]

Your approach: 30 cubes of air increased CO and decreased 02 - to replace.
Another approach to reduce CO2 and to increase O2.
But how?. About the same as with a moisture, CO2 will flow outward and O2 inward. Everything else will remain in place.

[bill]

I do not have time to do translations of all articles for the general public. References (if possible) I prefer to give the Scandinavian sources:
- The climate is closer to the Russian
- They are engaged considerably less than the North American.
- The American approach to the choice of materials is generally more "pragmatic" (aimed at cost savings), and the Scandinavian more "humane" (focused on the quality of life). Unfortunately, the Scandinavian English-language publications are relatively few –they prefer their native languages.

[baltazar]

The essence of the experiment is not in the area of the room, but that of the normal concentration of CO2 (1000ppm), "breathable" walls do not differ much from the "not breathable."
In other words, even if you have a large bedroom in which the area of the walls will be enough to maintain the rate of CO2, then at night the nor breathing walls the concentration accumulated only slightly more, about 5-10%.
And the conditions for the simulation are right: a night, the people sleep, and they can’t control a ventilation (through the same vent). And during the day , the windows can be opened.
By the way, in my cottage, a bedroom 11.5 m ^ 2, and the door is closed too for the night. In Moscow I have only 9 squares. I assume that most members of the forum not going to build a mansion, and the conditions of the experiment are close to the average.

[constructor]

But in a small room to achieve such effect is not possible in principle. as for me, for example, I have my door open or a mikroventilation is swiched on.
And if we want to save a fuel in the house, then what prevents us to mix the air with the rest of air in the home?.
Of course, the difference in pressure will be low ...
But ... ., I have not yet seen clear results..
The question, in my opinion, has not yet closed.

[expert]

If the ventilation is bad, then of course with "breathing" walls it is better (about 30%), but still the concentration of CO2 will be high and not good for health.
And if you do a normal ventilation, the effect of "breathing" walls is very small: it is easier for fans to buy 10% more powerful.

[buldozer]

I think that question rests on what is the norm.
Of course, for a stream, you need a pressure difference and the pressure difference - this is a deviation from the natural composition of air. On the one hand, of course, you do not reinvent the wheel, but on the other hand, in wooden houses the people live and live with such a system.
None is quietly complaining, though.
Then there is a volume - a stock and a tank. And there's a stove. And then, there are all sorts of holes.

[constructor]

How much you have written!!.
Please, fogive me for delay in the debate and a confusion of thought. I was frozen at work, I was treated in the traditional way (on the street, inside the 37 °> 40 °).
Thanks again, for the scada large amount of information that requires an interpretation (the joke about the housewife appreciated).
A brief summary:
It would like to have a miracle, but the miracle didn’t happen!.An ecowool loses its thermal properties when it is wet, a moisture is large (even if proves the converse studies). So, it is still a vapor barrier, an insulation and a windscreen. I tried to build a diagram due to their moisture transfer, the result is terrible. Compared with a traditional film or a total detoxification. What will be with the using of construction paper?.
2. A very interesting study on the air permeability. I encountered only with tests of the construction, "an inflatable door" (sealing a ventilation and a change in a pressure compressor and a metering). The problem is clear, the air ventilation is needed even in an Eskimo igloo.

[Summer]

And where did you get the numbers 30 cubic meters per person?.
I can say that when a person runs the average oxygen consumption of 40 ml per second per kg of weight i.e/ 40 * 60 * 60 * 80 = an average = 11520000 ml = 11520 l = 11.5 cube and this is when he runs, and when he sits or sleeps even less, so why does a man need 30 cubic meters per hour?

[bill]

30 cubic meters per hour --- a European standard for ventilation. Current regulations now in Russia is even higher. For example, 3 cubic meters per hour, per square meter.
This rate actually required for a comfortable existence of air.
(We also comfort we want, is not it?). But if we had a task to minimize the air, then dress the mask served pure oxygen, and the situation is radically changing, bottle lasts for several hours.

[constructor]

CO2 is 0.038% from the outside, but inside the maximum permissible concentration is 0.1%, i.e. the partial pressure of carbon dioxide outside is 3.8 g / cm ^ 2 and the inside up is to 10 g / g / cm ^ 2. A differential pressure is up to 6.2 g / cm ^ 2 or 62kg / m ^ 2. And that's what Google says:
To illustrate, consider the effect on the fiberglass of wind load at a speed of 28 m / s. In this case, a wind pressure can be defined as P = v2/16, where v – a velocity of the wind. Substituting the values, we obtain P = 28 ^ 2/16 = 50 kg/cm2.

[Summer]

Moreover, many of us have not lived in comfortable homes and apartments and. We settled in with the birth of Khrushchev and we are still happy just to the presence of housing and do not guess that it must be even and comfortable. I'm not surprised that many are so accustomed that they can sleep in a room 8.7 sq.m. with closed windows and doors with no ventilation.
I have a friend, a pulmonologist, he told me that there are rules of a bedroom area 5 sq.m for a person which at the ceiling more then 2.50 m fully provide an oxygen for a human respiration, and the concentration of CO and CO2 even without a ventilation, do not exceed safe norm.
It turns out that if you do not hold out a barrack from you house, you can sleep.