A "breathing" frame house

[bill]

I read about the ecowool different Western instructions. Yes, they allow its use in the walls without a vapor barrier. But not always, with reservations. The thickness of layer, the intensity of possible moisture, etc. Then I was still confused by the presence in it a fair amount of unwanted air quality inclusions (inks, boric acid). There is another option to use mettemplast with a good windscreen. It is environmentally friendly (a prejudice to the material by mass violations of its manufacturing technology is not discussed), but mechanically it is very weak and is only suitable in the interlayer structures. That is another question of what to do for a protective layer.

[buldozer]

The problem is that it is much smaller than the wood in the wooden wall. Therefore, with respect to its own weight of water it can store up to less secure for its values.
Yes, there is a lot of research on this topic, and the results are ambiguous. Among the most frequently recurring results can name only one - the humidity in the room above 40-45% is fraught with the appearance of mold inside the wall.
Borates - natural crystalline minerals (like a salt) in the wall are always between the layer of something dust stopper. they have low volatility and a solubility in water, up to some less dangerous values, their number of in the air, even from the inside, at least from the outside will not come ever. Ink is not soluble in water, contains no lead. The smell is only at the time of laying and quickly disappears. However, no adverse effects not detected. Retrieved on myself. Yes, all those fears are far-fetched, out of ignorance. The insulating properties become bad and heart properties increase (just kidding, but ...)
And this is not a military secret. If you dig well in the English-language internet, you can find. I just came across. There is nothing particularly interesting. In areas of moisture, safe for the ecowool. A conductivity is changed not critical. I understand that you need the exact numbers, but look for the new beyond me. I was thinking over the interiors.

[baltazar]

On a certain level the humidity doesn’t help. This level, incidentally, is known, but I forgot the exact figure. I called it last year when I read all these.
It starts to grow not any mold, but a defined bacteria of 2-3 species. Now, if they would have found justice, safe for human ...

[buldozer]

This is an interesting thing obtained:
Consider the house 10 * 10 with a height of 5 m of external walls.
The outside area the walls is 5m * 10m * 4 pieces = 200 square meters.
The air volume: 10 * 10 * 5 = 500 cubic meters.
Walls: an isoplaat + an ecowool + isoplat
The water vapor permeability of isoplat is 3.0 x 10 -9 kg/m2 * s * Pa, the air permeability is 3.0 x 10 -6 m3/m2sPa
So, per 1 hour through the walls will come 2.16 g of water and 2.16 cubic meters of air.
Conclusion number 1: this thing is no substitute for a house and especially not cold, but it will save the house from the stagnant air of mustiness (yet no one at home). The same can be achieved by slits in the valves, ventilation / windows / doors ...
A humidity.
The optimal parameters of indoor climate: a temperature about + 20 ° C, a relative humidity is up 45 to 65% - 50%.
At 50% humidity at a temperature of 20 ° C in the air contain 7.9 grams of water / 1 kg of air.
The density of air at a temperature of 1.2 kg / cu.
That is, at 50% humidity at a temperature of 20 ° C in the air contain 9.5 grams of water / 1 cc of air.
At 500 cubes of air of our house at 50% relative humidity contains 9.5 * 500 = 4750 grams of water.
To change the moisture content of 10% through the walls should surpass the 4750/5 = 950 g.
An hour is distilled only 2.1 grams. So at 10% moisture content change for the 950/2.1 = 452 hours!
Batteries dry the air in the apartment up to 15%! So, a humidity should be changed as much as 35%! With that, and on the street, in the winter the air is dry!
Conclusion number 2: "breathing" walls don’t regulate a humidity through the streets! So, all these debates is the vacuum distillation of sieve. But as for the accumulation of moisture, there is another matter.
Wood can absorb up to 20% of moisture.
The volume of plaque, which trimmed our house instead of inside isoplat: 10m * 5m * 0.025m * 4pcs = 5 cubes
The density of wood is 500 kg / cubic meter
Mass finishing our 5 * 500 = 2500 kg.
And it is able to absorb even 20% of its weight - 500 kg.
Dry - absorbed the moisture. Damp - gave the moisture to the dry air.
If we used Isoplat of the same thickness (as for the coefficient of a moisture absorption, I have not found it. It seems like no more than 6% - take it), then the density Isoplat 250 kg / cubic meters, the mass of the inner casing 5 * 250 = 1250 kg.
And it could absorb 6% = 75 kg of water! Is also sufficient to regulate the microclimate in the house.
Conclusion number 3: Don’t look at the water vapor permeability, but on the water absorption! Only materials for an upholstery.
A material for walls is only a matter of heat and a sound insulation, bio and a heat resistance, a durability, an ecological compatibility, etc. etc.

[expert]

From your conclusion number 2. Now, all who have studied the physics will fall into a swoon. The moisture in a heated room in winter never goes outside to inside. We can only talk about the limitation of its departure.
In paragraph number 3 you think that all the moisture that gets into wood paneling will be given back. But in fact, that it gave something, its moisture content should be higher than a relative humidity.
But you're on the right track. So really do. Vapor barrier is placed at a depth of 1/3 the thickness of the wall. But as a practice shows this is not enough (even if we have a wood siding).

[Summer]

2.16 m3/hr at a pressure drop of 1 Pa. at 10 Pa of a pressure difference (a difference creates a fan in the central hood canal and a working stove (a fireplace)) the air will be 21.6m3/hour. A roof should be made similar. This is another area of 100m2 ...
With regards to ventilation: a person needs an oxygen to breathe in a volume of 0.5 m3 of air per hour - this despite the ideal displacement, a ventilation (an inflow across the wall where there is no mixing of "old" and "new" air).

[buldozer]

The house of 370 sq. m. The number of living my husband and I. A heated area - 250 sq. m. The height of ceilings in the house is different, there is nearly seven feet, and 2.80. The principle of the air heating (VO) in my house: a warm air (45 degrees) through a grating in the floor enters the room, the exhaust air is taken to force (the lattice in the wall above the ceiling). Then the air mixes with the outside air, is heated, and again through the gratings in the floor enters the room.
In Kiev, the beginning of the heating season (we have swished on the heating on October 17) it was negative, but not always. The heating and the ventilation (on a gas stove) over the last month took 300 cubes h73.2 kop = 219.6 grivna or 30 USD per month. On the coldest days (-15) of a gas for heating will go up to 20 cubic meters per day.

[bill]

The "waste" air comes back into the gas stove and it is mixed with the fresh air of 10-15%, is heated again, and so, as a circle. A normal U.S. air gas heating system. Enough oxygen. A gas heats the air through the heat exchanger. That’s enough. Do not bare the ventilation system with a heat recovery and a heating.
I took such equipment myself - an electrostatic filter for a pollen and a fur, plus a street block of freon for cooling the air.
Only in my case, a warm air is supplied from the ceiling, and is sucked from the floor, forcibly.

[baltazar]

can I ask your scheme of heating? I am interested in the organization of heating.
And what about hygiene? a filter? The same dust.
The air is drawn from the street forcedly? What is the cardinality of power being drawn with respect to enforcement of the drawing room? It works in every room (except those listed)?
It seems to me that it is necessary to move form the subject of breathable walls to a ventilation and a climate control ... There will be much good.

[buldozer]

The air heating is derived in bathrooms and a laundry. You understand that we are in the toilet, not only guess crosswords.
The exhaust air before the stove is cleaned by the filter. The filter once a week should be washed. Before the heating season for each grating, I put a wet gauze in two layers. I swished on the heating, the air drove daily with a gauze, then the gauze was removed. The gauze was clean, without a dust.
The fresh air from the outside was 20%. Retracted forcibly. But there is a door, which I can open the flow completely, partially or completely overlap. In the picture you can see a filter, my filter, insert the filter into a place, one of the pages of my project IN-gray natural ventilation is indicated in red - with the warm air ducts in winter and cold in summer (a central air-conditioning throughout the house), blue – a sampling of exhaust air, green –a sampling of fresh air from outside and blue-green - a gas stove.

[expert]

In principle it can be. But if later, when it becomes colder, and the windows are closed, the humidity will remain the same, it is worth considering. It is a very risky log wall. That’s why I asked about the type of plaster. The water vapor permeability of the outer side, and without it is less than the interior and if a plaster is acrylic. The humidity of ecowool can go into the danger zone. This cake is distributed in America, and problems with it are known. A growth of mold is found somewhere in the second - the third year of operation.

[buldozer]

About "high price" I just laughed, for the heating of my house 250 m 2 I spent 208.000 rubles for the hardware and the installation will be up 100 - 120,000 rubles. About the mold in the ducts and a Legionella - also a series of "hear the sound ..."
You can wash an electrostatics once a quarter, the child will cope with. An equal temperature throughout the house is also not a minus. Not to read the same sites, it is necessary to "read" the Internet. If you count the water heating on the classical batteries, and take normal quality pipes, a boiler, a battery + a work, I do not think that it will come much cheaper than $ 10,000 for 250 meters, with all the other pros, one of which is generally great - the invisibility of the house . No nonsense, no batteries and their decoration.

[bill]

Any technology has its pros and cons.
And a promotion of the positive aspects of each part can only be welcome but. .almost every "promoter" includes a matter of honor "sleep off" on the technology of opponent and we are not speaking about the elementary fairness.

[Summer]

I lived in two frame houses, which I built myself. In the first one the error was not critical. And it was built in Siberia. And I have been lived in it for a summer + 40 and a winter - 40...
The second one was much smaller. Both are insulated with foam. Nowhere, I did not feel a thermos! It was warm. But the moisture from the ceiling and walls are not dripping. They breathe! And I smoke and, occasionally open the windows! With a ventilation, too, everything is in order.

[buldozer]

That's when you stay, then we will speak about it.. Unlike you, I know the ventilation and the air conditioning not hearsay. And I know what will happen with the client with an unqualified designer. To buy equipment and to supply - no problems. The problem comes later.
So, I'm not going to scare you more, live. Do not forget to write when you are going to pay for the mess.
You can’t install a normal system for 300,000. The same temperature throughout the house is not a plus. Poor filtration, is a minus. I will see a condensate much later.
Yes, in your system, I still liked the flow of heat from the top. Something akin to our proposed warm ceilings)) A warm air will down.

[constructor]

It is not difficult to write for me, once you tell me where to look for these problems.
So far, I only stifled the air intake in one place and I moved to another.
A humidity on a hygrometer is the minimum - 32%, but in the street is not cold and wet, so I will see what happens in winter.
Breathing or not breathing, quite normal dispute. Take a winter coat, if it was from a politilen inside, the people would have jumped out of it in an hour, and a fungi will grow. A ventilation rate in the bag, of course, will solve this problem, but convective flows and the cost of heating will increase, of course, in a "breathing" frame house the ventilation is necessary, but probably twice less.

[bill]

Articles about the study of the people health living in these homes you can find in the Internet, and they are 30 years old, when the people did not care to the environment of dwellings, as they died on a job. Breathing or not breathing, a normal dispute. Let’s take a winter coat, if it was inside from politilen, the people would have jumped out of it in an hour, and if I wore it, everything would have flowed, and a fungi would be bred. A ventilation in the bag, of course, will solve this problem, but convective flows and the cost of heating for the incoming air, although of course, and a "breathing" frame house must have s ventilation, but probably twice less.

[buldozer]

A person who wrote that, does not know that the walls themselves, he does not wear, as opposed to the cloth. Between him and the wall there is a large air space. Here are the parameters determined by the feeling of person, regardless of what made the wall.
The content of oxygen and carbon dioxide is determined only by ventilation, the amount of which is the same in the homes of any type. If the ventilation in the house goes through the wall, it speaks only of uncontrolled ventilation, a damage from which will be more. The volume of air actually passing through the thick wood, and not through the cracks between the logs (in wooden houses) is negligible, and no practice is not important.
And with the humidity is even easier. It is not enough in our climate in winter. And on the wet walls can speak only in a tiny room with a bunch of people there, so, even when a kitchen and bathrooms are not ventilated at all. And in summer the windows are still open in any home.

[bill]

I do not speak about the uncontrolled ventilation. I cited the example of the jacket, in the sense that as there is a "breathable" construction there, the number of the air exchange can be smaller, but quite sufficient for entrainment of a carbon dioxide, an oxygen, etc.
It turns out if the humidity is increased, and hence the danger to the building envelope, it would add a ventilation and the air becomes a carrier of excess moisture, and the exchange of air is enough (a controlled ventilation is turned on). This means increasing the cost of ventilation. "Breathable" no by the air but by the moisture, a construction can solve this problem, the jacket is the same example.

[buldozer]

Even it is hard to answer this question. Processes are not different but they are simply a lot, more other factors, and that the main thing is another scale.
Well, if you wear a jacket with a 5mm of syntepon and you feel well, then it will not be in a house of 5 mm.
To be honest, I'm too lazy to even think in the direction of these "natural processes".